Jewish women talking about Torah and the lived experience of our Judaism.
[00:00:47] Tonia Chazanow: Hello! I'm Tonia Chazanow, and you're listening to Human and Holy, a podcast where we discuss the deepest parts of Torah. Not just as scholars, but also as human beings.
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Today, we are going to hear from Bruria Efune, who talks about the Chassidic approach to darkness. When the world feels bleak, where do we draw our strength from? Should we turn away from the world's darkness, or should we turn towards it? How can we remain aware of the hardships of the world without being drowned by them? Can we be a force of light, while truly witnessing the darker sides of the world?
[Musical Interlude]
[00:02:31] Bruria Efune: My name is Bruria Efune. I'm originally from Canada, but I moved to Israel with my husband and then one child about eight years ago. We live in Beer Sheva now. Where amongst other things – I mean, we have jobs. But what we do full time is we're working on building a new Chabad yishuv that has many aspects to it. But primarily, it's going to be a yishuv that has a resort, where people can come and enjoy, like, everything about a five-star beautiful resort in the most beautiful location. Added on top of it, where you can experience Chassidus, experience Judaism come to life and make a real connection to Israel hands-on. That's what I do.
Most of the time, it's a lot of work. You would not expect it to be this much work. Nine years of work so far.
TC: Oh, my G-d.
BE: Going from office to office. Getting all the papers approved, the blueprint approved. Every single detail is – Any office we've ever met, the government officials love to tell us that it says in the Torah that Eretz Yisroel is conquered through yesurim, which means struggles, difficulties. But nowadays, Eretz Yisroel is conquered through ishurim, which is permissions. More and more and more papers and papers. But baruch Hashem, we're very close to the finish line, to the starting to build finish line.
[00:04:00] TC: Nice. Okay. Wow! You didn't mention this, but you are, in addition to working full-time on this project, which it really does amaze me how much effort it takes to get it off the ground. And it makes sense because you're creating something from nothing. Like a plot of land, to make it this thriving community. I love how you said it'll be a place where just Chassidus can come to life for people. It's really powerful.
And in addition to that, you're also a journalist. Do you want to tell us a little bit about your writing work?
BE: Well, actually the journalist is very new. I mean, I freelance for Chabad.org, a new section. I also, I write on Facebook a lot. Whenever I'm just feeling passionate about something, my fingers will just write something. And then I'll sometimes post it. Sometimes bury it. But yeah, I also write news stories for Chabad.org.
TC: So today we're going to talk about how we approach the darkness and the brokenness in the world. I think this is something that's really on a lot of people's minds in today's day and age, when it really feels like every month there's something else that just widens the crack and just makes everything feel a little bit more hopeless.
I would love if you could introduce your topic. Tell us a little bit about what we're going to be discussing today.
[00:05:17] BE: I mean, it kind of sounds awful that I'm just talking about an awful subject. But yeah, darkness. Darkness. I'm a super practical person. To me, everything I learn needs to translate into real life. And maybe I see things a bit bluntly. So when it comes to dark and darkness, I don't know. I have a very blunt attitude about it. Maybe we want to call it militant. I don't know. Let's talk about it.
I'll tell you why. Because I know I've always been this way. Just to me, I remember when I was a kid, you know, you learn Torah. And in your head you just – Obviously this should translate into real life, right?
Torah is supposed to be truth, and beautiful, and light. And since Torah is beautiful, and truth and light, then whoever follows Torah should be truth, and beautiful, and light. And their lives should be just filled with good, right? It's supposed to just be like that. Justice weighs out.
So, when I was a kid, that's really how I saw the world. Or not even just when I was a kid. Like, well into my teen years, that's how I saw the world. And I was also, baruch Hashem, very blessed. I grew up in like, you know, a good family, good parents. Not without little challenges here and there. But generally, the world that I lived in as a child was a good world, where if you behaved good, things were good.
And Judaism was beautiful. It was good. Dancing in shul on Simchas Torah, throwing candies, Purim, Shabbos, all these things were just good and beautiful. And Torah was good and beautiful. And it all just translated so well. That's how I lived and how I expected things to be.
[00:07:02] I don't think I really faced – You faced bad things here and there, like injustices in class, kids who are bullies. I was bullied quite a bit as a kid actually. But you're able to excuse those things away as exceptions to the role. But I don't think I ever really faced darkness until suddenly, when I was a teen.
And I faced it, like, head-on. Discovered all of a sudden, going from my beautiful perfect world to discovering that, "Oh, my gosh. There is some really horrible, horrible stuff out there." And there are people who are suffering in the worst of ways. And not only is there such horrible stuff. There're people who are dressing up in the cloth of Torah to get away with doing horrible things. And seeing that contrast and facing it head-on as a teen completely, completely threw me off.
I, like, see this darkness dressed up inside of my own what was supposed to be perfect world of people following Torah. And I couldn't deal with it. I one point thought - If this is what can hide behind Torah, if this is the world Hashem made, I don't want it. I don't want it. I don't really want to go and describe the horrible things I faced and saw and saw my friends suffering through. I just didn't have any capacity to filter it, to understand it. Just like even understand how that could exist.
There was really a lot going on in my life. I mean, friends who were, ended up being – their way of dealing with the challenge was drinking or drugs, or getting addicted. I ended up bringing friends to rehab or visiting friends in rehab. But that's getting a little bit ahead of myself.
So I was at this point where I was really at a crossroads, where I was testing out the waters of what would it be if I left this perfect Chassidish, frum, Torah world that I'm living in. And being so far away from my parents in Israel, where because of my reputation I was actually trusted a lot by the staff to do whatever I want.
And I was getting into trouble without anyone aware. And I was just trying to figure out where do I want to be? But then the discrepancy was like who am I? Am I this goody good that I have the reputation of? Or am I somebody who doesn't want to be this? And I realized I needed to decide.
I was in the dorm in Kfar Chabad Beis at the time. Around the whole kfar was this- just a big path that just went all the way around it. I went out for a walk on this path around and around in circles. And just for the first time really just thinking about life and what is it that I want out of life. And is this bad things that I was witnessing, does it mean that I need to abandon everything that I lived to until then?
And the truth is that I was really just angry. I was angry because I felt like Hashem promised to me that if I'm good, if I listen to the Torah, if I do the Torah things, then my life is going to be good. And same for the people around me. My friends were good people. They wanted to do good. But then they were going through such horrible things.
I was angry. I was like, "Hashem, how can you let this even? How could you even have created this?"
[00:10:22] TC: I think your experience of going from having this really idyllic perspective on what Yiddishkeit was and what it would bring to your life is really resonant. I think it's interesting that it started in childhood. And then obviously, as you became older and began to confront things in the world, it was challenged. And then you had to have this reckoning with the darkness of the world that you weren't accustomed to. And it's such a blessing that you did have this peaceful childhood where you did feel like Yiddishkeit is beautiful. Yiddishkeit is good. The world is good. Full of light.
And even the concept of darkness was probably so abstract until you really saw it when your friends were encountering things that were so painful. And to have to say like, "What is this darkness? And how could Hashem have created this darkness?"
And I think that that experience also goes in cycles throughout our lives. Yes, as children. And then coming out into adulthood. But then also, whenever we're forced to confront any type of darkness in the world, when something happens within the world that feels very scary to us or within our lives, then, again, we're like, “Hashem, but it's supposed to be good. And it's a beautiful Torah. And it's a joyful life. And what is this darkness, and these cracks, and this brokenness that we're seeing?” And how do we reconcile that with the beautiful Yiddishkeit that we know?
My question to you is, as a teenager, walking on that road in Kfar Chabad, finally, like, asking yourself, like, "What am I going to do? Okay. So, I've discovered darkness. Now what am I going to do about my new awareness of darkness?" Where did you go? What was your thought process?
[00:11:58] BE: So, I wasn't thinking- like, that's when I realized that, obviously, Hashem wants me to be angry about it. If I was comfortable with the darkness, it would be a problem. Now, that's why I was lucky that I was born into a world that was good and light in a way that darkness would be uncomfortable and make me angry.
TC: Right.
BE: Because the complacency with it would have been a problem.
Which is why when Hashem made – Moshe argued with Hashem. The moon argued with Hashem over why did you create darkness. Why did you make me small? After Hashem made the world, Hashem made the sun and the moon equally bright. And the moon said, "How can you have two kings with the same crown?"
So, Hashem diminished the moon. Hashem said to the moon, "Diminish yourself. Make yourself small." And then the moon argued with Hashem, "Why did you make me small?" Which was ultimately a question of why did you make the world a dark place.
And Moshe also had the same argument with Hashem, "Why did you create darkness?" And Hashem said to Moshe, "You know what? I've told you every single secret that there is to the Torah, everything. I revealed to you all the secrets. But there is one thing that you're going to ask me and I'm going to say no. Stop right there. I am not telling you."
And Moshe said, "Why? Maybe just don't create it at all." And Hashem said, "No, I created it. There's a reason why I created darkness. And I'm not going to tell you." And again, Moshe said, "At least tell me why you're not telling me." And Hashem says to Moshe, "Well, if I told you why I created darkness, if I told you why there's darkness in the world, would it be so bad? Would you be so upset about it?" And Moshe says, "I guess not. Probably not. If I know the reason for it, then no."
And then that means that Moshe would be sitting there okay and comfortable with the darkness and allowing the darkness to be and not fighting against it. Hashem says, "I'm not telling you why I created dark. I don't want you to be comfortable with it. I want you to be angry about it. And I'm going to give you a Mitzvah, every Rosh Chodesh, to bring a karbon Chatas." And the Karbon Chatas is really to atone for Hashem making darkness.
That point that I realized that I have a choice. I guess really three choices. I can be comfortable with the darkness and be like, the darkness exists. That's what it is. And therefore, I'm just going to accept the world as it is and not necessarily follow anything. Whatever. Nothing is meaningful to me anymore. It doesn't matter. Darkness is as darkness is. There's obviously a reason for it. And therefore, what I do doesn't matter either.
Or I could say, "No. Hashem wants us to be angry about the dark. I need to do something about it." I'm angry about the dark so that I do something about it, so that I fight it. And that was the point in my life, you know, walking around Kfar Chabad Beis again and again, that was the point when I decided that, fine, there's bad. There's dark. I don't like it. I'm angry at Hashem for creating it. But I'm not going to just accept it and let my whole life go off track because of it. I'm going to live my life to fight it.
[00:15:12] TC: Wow! That is such a powerful way of reframing it. When we feel uncomfortable with the darkness, and our instinct is, “let's focus on just, only on the positive. Let's ignore the darkness. Or let's look away from it.” In this case let me allow everything to lose its meaning so that, dark or light, it doesn't matter. I'm just existing in this world without purpose.
But I do think that I see myself in that, which is that I see darkness, something horrible happening in the world. And my instinct is, “let me turn my focus somewhere else.”
And I think that you bring a really important point, which is that it has to anger us. We cannot become desensitized to the brokenness and the hurt in this world. And we have to be able to really look it in the eye.
[00:16:01] BE: Yeah. And, yeah, the moment that you become comfortable with the darkness, that's when it becomes a big problem. I mean, I live in Israel, in the south of Israel specifically. So, every time there's a surge of terror attacks, my biggest worry is what if I grow comfortable with this? What if I grow comfortable with frequent news of people being murdered? And what if there's one morning that I wake up and see a list of people who are killed and I don't cry? Thankfully that's not happening right now.
But that's the worst thing, is if darkness happens, if things are going wrong and bad and we don't get angry about it, we don't cry, we're wasting the dark. It's a waste of dark. Because the truth is with the moon, the moon goes in cycles of diminishing and growing.
And at the beginning of the month, of the Jewish month, is the first day that it starts growing. And the day that it's the biggest is the 15th. And the 15th of the month, that's when all the Yomim Tovim are. Pesach, Sukkos. Rosh Hashana starts on Rosh Hashanah. I mean, Rosh Hashanah starts on the first day of the month. But the ultimate joy of Tishrei is Sukkos, which is on the 15th. Purim on the 15th. Tu B’shvat on the 15th. So when the moon is the biggest, that's when it's all revealed. The light of Torah is revealed.
But in the Torah, everything goes up in numbers. So 15th is when the light is at its greatest. But 16 is bigger. 17 is a bigger number. But on the 16th of the month is when the moon starts shrinking. 17 is smaller. 18, 19, 20, the moon is getting smaller and smaller. The world is getting darker and darker. But the numbers are going up. So, there must be something greater to it.
And on the 30th of the month or 29th, the moon's gone. We don't even see it at all. It's the darkest. But that's the greatest number of the month. And the interesting thing actually is that when we don't see the moon at all, the moon is actually the brightest. It's the closest to the sun. It's just on the side that we don't see it. And that's- Hashem tries to comfort the moon by saying, "When you're the smallest, when nobody sees you at all, you're really closest to the sun. That's really the brightest point. That's when I'm with you the strongest." We don't see it.
Because it's really – It's something we should have become comfortable with. But in the darkness is the greatest treasure of when you're small is when you can grow. The dark is when you don't understand what's going on. It's confusing. You don't see Hashem. You don't see Hashem's hand helping you and guiding you through anything. And you feel like all is lost. All is gone. It's the easiest point to give up and throw everything out the window. And it's something that's unique to humans, unique to people. Everything else. Everything that grows in this world goes according to the calendar of the sun, which is always the same. But– Our Jewish people go according to the calendar of the moon, which grows and shrinks. And that's because we uniquely have this chance where we can really choose.
And the only time you can really, really choose is when Hashem's not obviously right in your face. When everything's going good, and fantastic, and life is so bright and jolly, it's so easy. When I was a kid, it was so easy to do the right thing. Doing the right thing made life good. It made sense. It was right. It was easy.
I was almost like – I kept Torah and mitzvahs just because. Automatically. Easily. It wasn't my own choice. There was no choice there. It was just how I grew up. How things were good. How it was easy to do and made sense to do it. I wasn't choosing it. It just made sense. It's like when the Jewish people got to Har Sinai and Hashem asked them do they want the Torah? And it was like, well, duh. Hashem just made them huge miracles. Everything's great. Of course."
When it's dark and confusing and everything seems completely lost, that is the only time when we really are free to choose and break out of everything we grew up in, everything we know, all of our old habits, everything that's automatic, and actually make a choice to grow, or to become something new, or to break out of our old patterns. So in this darkness, that we should never become comfortable with, is the greatest gift.
[00:20:18] TC: Okay. I have so many questions to ask you here. Because I think, first of all, I just want to comment on that beautiful sentiment that, “I hope I don't ever wake up one morning and read a list of people and not cry.” Because if we become numb to the pain in the darkness of the world, then it's a waste of the darkness.
And like Moshe was asking Hashem to give him the reason. And it was like if I give you the reason, you won't do anything about it. So we have to maintain our emotional rejection of darkness so that we will do something about it.
BE: Right. Can’t become comfortable.
TC: Exactly. But, on the other hand, I have to ask what is the balance between being so porous to the darkness, and so empathetic to the brokenness, and so aware of it that it paralyzes us and we cannot make a difference? And we cannot contribute light to counteract it? And actually, being able to remain empathetic in a way that allows us to be the people on the ground that can be helpful in that situation.
[00:21:25] BE: The moon only disappears for one day before it starts to grow again. The darkness, you have to be uncomfortable with it, but you can't sit in it. You have to decide now to grow. Hashem told the moon to diminish. But it doesn't always diminish. It grows and shrinks, and grows and shrinks, in an ever constant cycle where, "Okay, things are going bad. This is dark." Take a moment to mourn. Take a moment to be upset about it. And then resolve, "What am I going to take out of this darkness? How am I going to break it?"
I'm uncomfortable with the darkness not so that I could sit in it and be sad about it. I'm uncomfortable with the darkness so that it can motivate me to move out of whatever patterns I'm stuck in. To move out of whatever patterns of darkness are in this world and break and create something new. The sun is always the same. The sun always stays bright and shiny. Our life goes through cycles. It's a constant – There's ups and downs.
I mean, so my husband and I set out to build this Yishuv and we thought – I mean, when we set out, we were young and naive and thought, "Oh, we're going to go build a new Yishuv in Israel. I'm sure they want us to build a Yishuv." And it's not easy.
We have these – the past eight or eight and a half, almost nine years, we've been through constant cycles of big accomplishments, "Wow! We got this done." Celebrate and then step back, "Oh, no, no. Now we have to get all this done." Or the big high of we have all the papers we're about to move in. And then, oh, the coalition, the government coalition pass collapsed. We no longer have the 61 votes we need to move in. Constant up and down, cycles.
And that's even the easier, honestly, life also. In our life, there's always constant cycles. We have times where things are going great and good and happy. And then times with struggles where things are going awful. I mean, I live with chronic illness. So I have days when I can barely get out of bed. My heart's not functioning well enough. I'm in a lot of pain.
And then days where everything seems to be growing great, and I have all this great energy, and I'm getting stuff done. And then collapse back again. And all through life, you know, we have times where we're growing and we're learning and times when we're falling back. And times when we think, "Oh, I'm on the top of the world. I got it. I'm doing great. I'm accomplishing. I'm there." Only to be set back again. And that's just, you know, a person is a mehalech. We're constantly going through cycles.
And in each cycle, we think we're at the top, but then we get pushed back down. And then we rise up even higher than we were before. And that's something that we couldn't do without the dark. We couldn't do it if there weren't those setbacks.
It's something about being all the greatest leaders, Moshe, Shaul, Dovid, were small. Like super humble. They thought they were nothing. They were so open to vulnerability. It's when we're able to sit back and say, "I don't know what's going on." Or, “I'm in a bad place. I don't like where I am. I failed. I don't like how things are. I don't understand things. I'm not on the top of the world. I'm not with a perfect grasp of everything."
And when we're able to face that and admit that I don't got it, that's when we're able to grow the most. When they wanted to coronate Shaul Hamelech, he was found hiding. He was too scared to do it. So he went from the most humble of “I can't do this” to the first king of the Jewish people. Dovid Hamelech was the greatest king of the Jewish people. And what is Tehillim- I’m a lowly worm.
TC: Wow!
[00:25:15] BE: Yeah, when in the darkness were vulnerable. And when we're vulnerable, that's when we can grow the greatest. As long as we let the darkness make us vulnerable. It doesn't happen if we're comfortable with it.
TC: So you shared about your own struggles. A, just setting up the Yeshiva and all the recurring struggles of that. And then, very literally, chronic pain is something that flares up, probably at times that are most unexpected, or inconvenient, and debilitates you. What would you say is the difference between the way that we interact with the world's darkness and our own?
[00:25:53] BE: Wow, I'm not sure I ever really thought about that much. It's interesting. I think I'd mostly react to it in a very similar way. Though our own darkness can be very lonely. Sometimes I feel like nobody else would ever understand what I'm going through. Whereas when it's a darkness of the world, you can share it. When it's your own darkness. And even if you have a good circle, caring friends, caring husband, caring family, there's still an element of it that nobody else will ever understand.
And it could get much, much more dark. And it's at a point where you realize like, literally, the only person who really understands what I'm going through, as much supportive as everyone else around us, is Hashem. And that's when you really could say, "You know what? Hashem, this is entirely in your hands. I don't know why you decided to give me this. But you did. And I'm trusting you that it's for a good reason and you're going to help me push through this."
And then, you know, something about learning to push through on your own entirely, because it's entirely up to you. You can go from doctor to doctor and take whatever medicine. But ultimately, when it's a chronic illness or your own struggle, it's something that you have to find the strength inside yourself to continue pushing forward every single day. Because it's something that you know that – Unless there's some huge medical miracle coming through, it's going to be there forever. It's a constant struggle. Nobody's coming. No big hero is going to come fix it for me. I need to get in the mentality of every single day I'm going to wake up and decide that I'm going to push through. And sometimes you have to let yourself say, "Okay, today is not the day I'm going to push through. Today's the day I'm going to stay in bed." Allow myself time to refresh and recover, read, relax, accept myself. Be with myself. It forces you to find a strength inside of you that you never knew was there, every day, all over again.
[00:28:07] TC: Wow! I love this perspective. And I love the teachings that you're sharing here and also just hearing about your own experience. I think chronic pain is something that a lot of people silently suffer with. Because, because you've been dealing with it for so long, it's not even a story or something you've experienced. It's an ongoing experience. And so, it's part of your world. And yet, every morning, like you said, you have to wake up and say I'm going to decide to push through. And I'm going to decide to live my life and to live a life of purpose even if you are suffering and struggling. And I think that that is tremendous in its own right and also when we zoom out into the world, when we look at the darkness of the world, at the chronic darkness and suffering in the world. And it's so hard.
Recently, people were talking about the rise of anti-semitism. So soon after the Holocaust. And it just makes you realize how hatred, and brokenness, and darkness is actually part of galus, and is never going away. And we like to think we've moved past it, and it's not going to happen ever again or anymore. But it will.
And can we be so uncomfortable about that? That it moves us to do something. Like in your instance, that it moves you to wake up and get up and out of bed, despite the struggle. That it moves us to look at the world and say we're going to make this place better even though it's so dark because it's so dark. It's real.
[00:29:38] BE: Yeah. I'm a strong believer that everybody needs to have something that they're out to fix.
I don't know what educator it is that once said that instead of asking kids what do you want to be when you grow up. Ask “what do you want to fix? What problem do you want to fix?” I think that every person, it's so much easier to get up every morning and continue when you're set on a problem that you want to fix, when you're set on solving something, when there's a certain darkness in the world that you chose. Because we can't fight every single darkness. There's too much. There's too much for every person to fight. But if every person chooses their specific darkness that they're going to fight, that they're going to try to fix, it gives you an ability to keep going. You have that focus, that one reason, one thing that you're going to keep fighting. And when a darkness happens in another area, you can say, "At least I'm doing my part in something specific." And you know what it is.
I mean part of this whole idea of the yishuv that we're building. My husband and I, the first year we were married, we lived in Crown Heights. He was in kollel. I was working at Hachayal Magazine, for Tzivos Hashem.
And when we were there, we had a lot of friends. We had a lot of great people that other young couples, young families, that, Chabad families where they had grown up in the Chabad system and their entire education years were prepared for and trained for going on Shlichus. Between all the mivtaoyim, and camp counselors, and organizing Shlichus things.
[00:31:19] And in school, told that the best thing you can do is go on Shlichus. Be the Rebbe's Shluchim. And there were so many of these young Chabadniks that were then married, living in Crown Heights, with this great energy for Shlichus, but not finding their place to go.
And you know when you have a good energy that doesn't get put to good use could end up going bad. And it was just so sad to see all this great positive energy not getting used. And we wanted to live in Israel, but we didn't know exactly where we would fit in in Israel. And we thought, what if we made a place where everybody lives with a purpose? Where everybody living there is not necessarily on a full-time Shlichus, but is on a Shlichus and they know they're on a Shlichus.
Because, I mean, every chabadnik, wherever you go, you're on a Shlichus. But sometimes you forget it. So what if it's a place where everybody always knows that? And that's what we thought of. Let's make a yishuv, with a hotel that people come to, to experience where Chassidic wisdom comes to life. Where there's a hotel that has shiurim, and hands-on tourism that teaches Chassidus. But also, that the entire yishuv is part of the experience. Where every family that lives there is part of bringing Chassidic wisdom to life. Where every family can make their front garden into an exhibit on Chassidus. Where every family knows that at any moment, a tourist can stop them and ask them a question. Or they can invite tourists for Shabbos guests, experience a Shabbos meal in a family home rather than the hotel. Or create tourist attractions that are both fun and educational. And in that way, every single person living there suddenly has a constant purpose and mission every day.
After we thought of that, actually we came across quite a few letters from the rebbe where it turned out that the rebbe had asked for that. The Rebbe had asked that there be another Kfar Chabad. And that it be a place that attracts tourists. And that it have a lot of Olim, meaning Chabanikim moving from around the world, especially America. Living there. And that it should be a center of hafatzos hamaayanos, teaching Chassidus.
So we set out to do that. And I already see it in our community of families that are going to be moving in to the yishuv, the first families that are going to be moving in and setting up the atmosphere. Starting, like I was talking about, in those temporary homes and the temporary neighborhood. The energy that comes with having a purpose. Preparing, planning, knowing that you have a goal, you have your special place of the world that you're going to light up. It makes every day and every challenge so much easier. It's like a rope to pull out.
When you're stuck in the darkness, you have, okay, something to climb up on. Something to pull yourself up on. And for me personally also, when things have gotten really, really difficult either with my health or with the biggest challenges we've had in building this yishuv, keeping focused on the goal and the end vision. And that this is my darkness that I'm going to solve. This is my problem I'm going to solve. And create a place where people who are struggling with day-to-day life can come and rejuvenate in an atmosphere of Chassidus. Having a mission helps pull through the darkness.
[00:34:48] TC: Nice. And I think that when it's done in that way, the passion is so powerful and it's fueled by joy. That even though it's counteracting the darkness, it has a light energy to it. Because our instinct is, is that if our focus is on counteracting the darkness, then we're coming with the heaviness and a pessimism. You know, like a certain, "Oh, no. It's so dark. I guess I'll help try to make it a little better. But it will always be dark." Versus, "It's so dark. And I could feel that pain so viscerally. And I have a passion that is so powerful that will counteract that passion for light, and joy, and education."
And I think that's a way of fusing the really intense experience of looking at darkness and brokenness and also the really intense, empowered joy that we need to actually make a difference.
[00:35:39] BE: Right. And that's, I mean, part of what – Again, the moon goes in cycles. We have times where it's light so that we could remember how much we love light and how much we want it to be there and how great it is. And that we are going to get there.
TC: Exactly.
BE: And we have these great moments that we can remember there is greatness. There is light. It can be that way. And it will be that way. And it will get that way. And we can create beautiful images in our mind to hold on to where we're going to.
I mean, even a few months ago. Actually, almost a year ago by now, I had a surgery, a really painful surgery. I developed a rare condition where, long story short, a few of my ribs broke. And I had to have a very rare surgery to tie them back in place, which meant drilling holes, tying them in. Kind of gruesome. Very painful. My surgeon explained to me that it’s one of the most painful surgeries possible.
And in the days after, in the recovery, I mean, the initial first days after, I was in so much pain. I could barely move. I wasn't able to. I couldn't sit up without help for like a week or two. But in the worst pain, it was impossible to imagine otherwise. I couldn't imagine not being in pain.
[00:36:58] And I think, at about that time of year, we were reading the Parsha of the Jewish people coming out of Mitzrayim. And I was thinking about how we read this in the Parsha every year and we have Pesach every year. And we talk about b'chol dor vador everyday. We're constantly talking about how we were in the worst of the worst in Mitzrayim. And then Hashem came and took us out.
And I never really realized how valuable that was until that moment when I was sitting there in so much pain and I couldn't imagine otherwise. And it was like, we talk about being in the darkness of Mitzrayim to remember that we were once upon a time in a really, really dark place, in the lowest of the low. Where, the Jewish people forgot that it was possible to get out. They didn't even remember that there was such thing as getting out of there. And then that's when Hashem made all these big miracles and took them out. It was like we were in the darkest place before and we got out.
And having that in living memory and constantly reminding ourselves. Having that visualization of “I was here before and I got out and I was in brightness and great and everything was fantastic. I'll do it again. “ So when I was in that horrible, horrible pain and I couldn't imagine not being in horrible pain, I remembered, "Oh, wait, there was a time when I wasn't in horrible pain, when I was able to walk around just fine. I'm going to get there again. I'm not there right now. But like I have that – it's happened."
And there's been times when – There have been other times when I also went through horrible injuries and recovered. So though I might not see it right now where I am now, I know that I've been here before and I'll get out of it again. And I remember what good is. And I'm going to hold on to that memory because I know I'll be in that good again.
And it also helps at the same time to speak to other people who had been through the same surgery and hear them say, "Oh, yeah, I remember. It was really, really horrible. But I got out of it. I'm doing good now." And saying, "Okay, they were in that dark place and they got out of it." Sometimes it's just good to talk to people who've been through the same thing.
Just hear somebody say like, "It's bad. But it gets better. It gets better." Holding on to that image of brightness of good, that it gets better.
[00:39:17] TC: I think that's very, very powerful. On the one hand, to be able to validate with other people that it was so painful and so hard and also to yourself. And then also to hold that image of light in your mind. Because like you said, it's like the moon, that it fluctuates. Sometimes the world does feel darker and sometimes the world feels bright and we feel more empowered. If we could take that empowerment with us as a way to counteract the darkness and the brokenness that we experience, and that the world experiences.
And I think it's very practical to what you said, just about choosing your corner to impact and to figure out it could be your family. It could be raising your children. It could be a specific cause you care about. It could be the yishuv that you're creating. Or even just your health and living despite it. Whatever corner we can choose. And then to know, when we encounter darkness, I am doing my part to counteract this. And even though I feel this and it's so painful, I have an image of light in my life that I am working towards.
BE: Yeah.
TC: I'd love to end off with you sharing any words of advice for, really, all of us living in a world, that I don't know if it's because of the interconnectedness of the world that we experience every moment of global darkness so intently. But It does feel like the world is suffering. So how can we practically not numb ourselves and respond with presence and also with purpose?
[00:40:52] BE: I mean, I think first of all, it's important to validate where you are. Recognize that, yeah, it's dark. It's hard. I'm confused. I don't know what's going on. I'm not in control of the situation.
Like Hashem said to the moon, "Diminish yourself." Recognize that. It's okay. And then remember that things go in cycles. We've been here before. You know, we've been in times where anti-semitism was on the rise. And the truth is, at this time, we're a little bit better off than other times.
But you need to first be able to validate for yourself. Yeah, it's hard. It's difficult. But I've been able to get out of this before. Or historically, my family has gone through this before. And we'll get through it again. And I'm going to push through it.
And sometimes in the worst dark, that's when we get to find our real selves. Because when everything's going good, it's easy to just fall into a pattern of just doing, going along with your life, however it is. But when it's not, that's when you really get to find yourself and decide what you want to be, what you want to do, how you want to face this darkness, and how you're going to plow through it. And its really, the ultimate test of who you really are and what you really want to become.
And through that, to remember, is that you're not alone. You're coming through this with, first of all, Hashem put you in this situation because he knows you're going to be angry about the dark. He knows you're not going to like it. And he knows you're going to fight it. And just like all your ancestors before you pushed through it, you can too. And it will get better. We're going to be in bright times again soon. We're going to get there. And there's going to be all those little good points. Hold on to them. Hold on to them tight. And because those are little previews of the amazing time that's coming soon.
TC: Thank you, Bruria. This was so beautiful. I really enjoyed it. And it felt so real. Didn't shy away from the darkness. And it also didn't shy away from the light. I really loved it.
BE: Thank you. Thanks for the conversation.
[Musical Interlude]
[Outro]
[00:42:57] TC: Let yourself be angered. Let yourself feel uncomfortable. When we look at darkness, and feel nothing, it becomes a waste of darkness. It is our passion and empathy that fuels us to make a change.
And yet, if you are porous to the entire world's darkness, you will drown in the abyss. So instead, choose your little corner of healing, of light. Let yourself feel the pain in that corner, in that cause that naturally sparks you. Lean into it. Let yourself feel a little uncomfortable. It's our discomfort with the darkness that gives us the fuel to make a change.
The greatest tragedy is not just the moment of another person's pain. It is also when we stop crying in response, because it is then that we lose hope of ever seeing change.
Let yourself be angered by the darkness. Use that passion as fuel for fire, and let it illuminate your corner of the world.
[Musical Interlude]
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